Bishop Olivia, the diocese’s first female suffragan bishop, and the Revd Canon Liz Jackson reflect on the ministry of women, 30 years on from their ordination. How far has the church come, and where can we play a role in leading change in society?
The Rt Revd Olivia Graham has been Bishop of Reading since 2019. She retires in September in 2024.
The Revd Canon Liz Jackson is Associate Archdeacon of Berkshire and a Bishop’s Advisor for Women’s Ministry in the diocese.
This article is from the April 2024 edition of Pathways.
Allowing women to flourish
LJ: I didn’t go to church until I was 20. My brother and I came to faith together. He became a priest. I was told I needed to go through the Lay Reader route. Then I had children and remained a Reader until 2008. Looking back, I see how we were both at the same stage and it went one way for him and another way for me.
+O: My third child was due to be born six weeks before my ordination. I was looking for a curacy, and wrote to my training incumbent asking to work reduced hours in the first few months. He responded in the vein that I was a typical female wanting allowances to be made. Remember, there was no maternity leave at that point – that’s been a big change.
A second incumbent wouldn’t have me either because of concerns around what would happen if I was called out at night. In the end, I had to do a non-stipendiary first year to allow me to work from home. What has changed is that we’ve now got written policies. What we still haven’t got is the universal change in attitude needed for younger women with dependent children to flourish.
LJ: Working with parishes in recruitment you do still hear, “Well, she’s going to have babies” or “We want a man with two children and a wife who can be part of church life.”
There is still a certain ideal of what the vicar should be. And some of the attitudes that are prevalent in society are certainly reflected in parishes too – I was once referred to as “the skirt” by someone who was really cross about something. Sadly, there are still people who do not think your ministry valid, and that’s bewildering and challenging.
Loving despite frustrations
+O: The settlement we arrived at was one which wasn’t entirely satisfactory. A settlement never is. It did enable quite a large number of people to stay in the Church of England who might otherwise have left it, although if it were happening today I think far fewer would want to leave. Whether it is a provision which will prove to be healthy for the Church of England in the long-term is not clear.
It is hard living with institutionalised separateness, and I have a stern conversation with myself every morning about loving the people in the Church of England who separate themselves from me because of my gender, about which I can do nothing.
LJ: I do feel quite frustrated at the inability to have a good up-to-date conversation about women in ministry, but I just get over it every day and get on with the job I am called to. There are still some very antiquated ideas around women in ministry. For example, I have found myself having conversations with people about menstruation and whether I should be doing the sacramental parts of the service. I have worked with some Orthodox colleagues who won’t give women Communion at certain times of the month.
+O: I understand the traditional Catholic arguments and I respect them because I understand them. I simply don’t understand the “headship” argument – this business about a woman having to teach under the authority of a man. A woman can only preach a sermon as long as a man has checked it out and she is doing it under his authority. Or she can teach women but not men (implying that the women are of lesser value so it doesn’t really matter what she teaches them).
LJ: This attitude is still very much alive, and it’s bewildering. It doesn’t seem to me that churches who don’t accept the ordination of women are always being honest with their wider congregations about the position they hold. I was working for a diocese as a youth worker, visiting a more conservative church. Before I went in, they said, “We just don’t talk about the women issue, because there women could not be in leadership.” It felt dishonest, and that doesn’t feel very Christ-like.
+O: Also, we ought to be calling out the micro-aggressions in our churches, which we don’t do. We are polite about it. Women are expected to shut up and be grateful for whatever concessions have been made.
LJ: That calling out is important because women say to us, “Tell us how to manage sexism; tell us how to work around it”. That’s not really where we should start; we should be calling it out and getting behaviour right.
Being assertive
+O: I think women in the church lack confidence. I don’t know where that has come from, whether it is that generally women are less confident. We do have some fabulous female clergy, and a great new generation coming up. But, in general, I think we may even have gone backwards. My generation was far more comfortable being assertive than generations I see coming through. For example, I think being a parish priest as a woman is a great job if you’ve got young children because you can organise your time around your children’s timetable. Nobody can tell an incumbent that they can’t do that. You can organise your life so you’re on the school gate at half past three every day.
LJ: And it’s a missional opportunity!
+O: You can do some great ministry there. While your kids run around you chat to the parents.
LJ: We have to work out how we give permission for that to happen. It’s very easy to get caught up in the demands of the role and the parish, and the expectations.
+O: I wonder why women feel they need permission?
LJ: Because we feel we need permission in all aspects of our lives in this world.
+O: The feminism of the 60s and 70s seems to have completely dissipated, to have been for nothing. Younger women today just don’t seem to have benefited from it.
LJ: My understanding of Christianity is that we are called to be a community, but the world is set up for people to be very individualistic. We need to be much better about how we nurture everybody in that community, including those who are giving birth to the next generation and nurturing them. There is quite a challenge in doing that from within an organisation that discriminates against women in some areas.
+O: If we’re taking EDI [equality, diversity and inclusion] seriously, that means specific actions for specific groups.
LJ: And women in ministry also need to be prepared to support one another. Some female clergy say to me, “It’s not my issue because it’s not affecting me.” But if it’s your sister’s issue then it’s your issue. That’s what we believe, that’s where we should be.
+O: If female clergy have claimed their space and are inhabiting it confidently then they should be mentoring all the other women in their deanery.
LJ: So, it’s still our issue. I think we have the will – we have got to get our act together.
+O: Sister act!
The Diocese of Oxford recently appointed four new Bishop's Advisors in Women's Ministry. Find out more about their work and get in touch to discuss any issues.